Ep #17: Intentional Discipleship: How to be a good steward of your relationships

Episode Transcript

Austin
Thanks for joining us again on the second half surge of podcasts. We're glad that you're here with us as we continue our conversation about God owns our relationships. We want to be reminded that in the last episode we talked about who is the next steward and thinking about how do we be really intentional with that steward. And the three questions that we were asking are who are they?
Are they prepared and how much is enough for that next steward? And three really challenging questions that I think come in tension with what our culture says. So as we continue this conversation of relationships and God owning those relationships, we want to think about what does it mean to be intentional with our relationships and not just when we feel ready, but all throughout the course of our lifetime.
And if God really owns at all, if He owns our relationships and stewarding our relationships is really vital to being a follower of Jesus and discipling, then we need to be really intentional with those around us. For parents, it could be our children. For parents, it could also be grandchildren. It could be it's going to be our spouses.
It's going to be relationships with our neighbors. Like there are lots of intentional relationships that God is calling us to steward. Now, on the flip side, I think about Dunbar's number and Dunbar's number. And Robert Dunbar was a psychologist. He realized that humans only have the capacity for about 150 significant relationships where I can really know somebody and know enough about them to be in deep relationship.
So I need to hold it in tension. The God calls me to care for the people around me. But then there's also going to be more significant relationships that I need to invest more time into, That I need to spend more of my emotional, spiritual energy into investing in those relationships. And as I think about my life, discipleship in my life has been a lifelong process.
And so I would hope that as I enter relationship with my children of my spouse, that I'm not seeing them from a simple what is going on today in the life of my wife or my kids, it's man and God. I want to see the trajectory of their relationship with you In five-years and ten-years and twenty-years in fifty-years, the hope is that they would walk with Jesus for a lifetime that leads to walking with Jesus for eternity.
So, Spencer, what are some cultural differences when we think about the next steward and intentionality with relationships?

Spencer
Well, I think as we've highlighted the cultures direction and looking at who is the next steward is basically going to say, how many kids do you have? What's your estate? Ok, Take your estate. Divide by the number of kids that you have and that's where your assets are going. So there's not really a level of even intention of saying, how should I divide an estate?
There's also a thought process that you can't talk about money with anybody, but even your kids. There is a wall or a hindrance oftentimes that we see even within families that love each other and are very close to broach that conversation about money, about passing on resources. So there's an inherent reticence to go that direction. We certainly see one of the other things would be if we look at our kids or by our heirs whoever they may be, and we look at them and think that they're not really good with money, what we try to do, rather than have the conversation, maybe try to equip them more, oftentimes we just try to control them.
You see that with the setup of trusts. You see that with a variety of different angles that you could go there. Trusts certainly have a place overall in estate planning for particular reasons. You think about if we have a circumstance with someone with significant disabilities that might not be able to manage their resources just cognitively, That's a place where a trust is very much valid and we need a trustee to be able to step in and efficiently manage resources.
There is an energy, though, sometimes that we say, Well, I'm going to fulfill my obligation as a parent by dividing the estate equally, but I know you can't handle it over here, you know, child A and so I'm going to put this trust on top of things and it's going to seek to control. You know, the reality is there's very little that we can do to control.
And we want to really work on building that person's relationship with us, but also with the Lord. And some of those vehicles can create some challenges if we go down that direction. But I think more than anything, probably it's the pace that we go at in life. You know, we think about the breakneck pace that many of us guilt.
We don't carve out space for deep conversations. We see this there's not deep conversations or space for them, oftentimes with spouses, with kids, with friends. There's just the pace that we accept as we look at the world. And some of it's just stuff that doesn't matter. I mean, you know, I mean, how many times, you know, we hear somebody bingeing, you know, a Netflix show or whatever it might be things that rationally we know are not as important as those deep conversations.
And yet all of us, you know, we've had this conversation, ourselves included, We can be taken along in that stream where that is stuff that fills up our lives. We don't create the context for that kind of stewarding of our relationships and not just the space in terms of having a conversation, but maybe the prayer even on the front end.
So we'll dive into all these different things, but we see our culture going in a very different direction. As we think about stewarding relationships, then what we see is the biblical witness.

Austin
One of the challenges to me is I even think about what you're saying about bingeing Netflix or picking up the phone. It's the moment that I do it. I know there's probably more important things that I should be bringing when Netflix asks me, Are you still watching? It's not a good thing. I know that I've been there for too long.
And I know that I've probably just. I'm saying I'm just tired. I need to check out and. But I think there's a challenge in me to be like, Is this good? Is this really where I want to be spending my time? And I think there's a beauty of story that can come out in those things. And so we don't want to just say it's all bad, don't do that.
But I think that we live in that tension and we want to say, where is our time well-spent? Is God the owner of our time? Is God the owner of our relationships? And if so, what does it look like to pursue holiness and healthiness in those places with the Lord?

Spencer
And if he owns our time, as we talked about earlier, one of the things that is rejuvenating much more spiritually and physically is taking this space to do things like sleep or, you know, to be in silence or these other things. Oftentimes, though, as we get overwhelmed, you know, we see the creep of, you know, these activities that just kind of numb our minds, taking over and then impairing our capacity.

Austin
Today we're going be looking at 2 Timothy 2:1-2 in particular. And if you have grown up in the church, if you've been around the church, if you have been in college ministries, this is probably a banner verse for you. But we're going to just look at it again, especially as we're thinking about the next steward, as we're thinking about God owning our relationships.
And the reality is there is some intensity to this verse that I think doesn't often get unpacked as we think about the idea of spiritual multiplication. So Paul, right now he's writing one of his last letters. It's one of the pastoral epistles to Timothy, someone he affectionately often calls his child in the faith, they spent significant time together.
Timothy is leading in the church in Ephesus. Paul is imprisoned because of his public profession of Christ. Again, Paul is in prison because he has been speaking about Jesus. Again. It's really easy for me to say that. It's not easy for me to put myself in Paul's shoes as he speaks. These words to Timothy. But he also calls Timothy to share in his suffering for the gospel.
He reminds Timothy that Christ abolished death and brings life and immortality through the Gospel. He tells him to follow this pattern of teaching. So he's calling Timothy into the life that Paul is living, which led Paul to prison. And so as we look at these verses, the reality is that following Paul in this way led to persecution.
And so the call into this life of discipleship in the early church was not a calling to comfort and control. It's a call of laying down and trusting the Lord as the Lord is providing and is opening doors. And so just prior to this, Paul tells Timothy, the Holy Spirit is the one who guards the deposit entrusted to you.
Paul's not saying that Paul is the faithful one or Timothy is the faithful one, it's Christ who is the faithful one and the Holy Spirit is guiding. And then Paul goes on, and in this letter to both talk about people that have abandoned the faith, and he heralds people of the faith. So, Spencer do you want to go ahead and read off 2 Timothy 2:1-2 and then unpack a little bit for us.

Spencer
“1 You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus, 2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also.” (ESV)
So I think the first thing that we see here in this first verse is that the strength comes from grace that is in Christ. This is not something that he's saying, Hey, Timothy, work harder. Hey, Timothy, screw up your resolve and make this happen. He's coming back to the grace that is in Jesus. And I think this really frames the idea of hospitality, you know, for us. Because if we sense the Lord's love, his incredible hospitality for us, then as we receive that grace, then we can give that grace to others.
It's a different energy than saying, Hey, go out and talk to twenty people because, you know, you need to check off these boxes of being able to share your faith today. It's much more from the sense of the Holy Spirit is leading. There is grace there he is providing the energy as well. I think one of the things and you started to highlight these Austin, as we think about the context of what Paul was doing with Timothy, he has had this long relationship with Timothy too.
And so we think back, you know, Paul meets Timothy and he realizes that Timothy's mother and grandmother have been faithful and walking with God, he references that he's taken Timothy on missionary journeys. He has sent Timothy as a proxy both before him and behind him. We see that very clearly in the letters to the Corinthians. We see that in other places as well, that Timothy has not just been one who's observing, but he's been one that actually speaks with the authority of Paul in leading local churches.
And doing so sometimes with church discipline, which in the West we flee from general speaking, where we just don't do all that. So, he has been in the nitty gritty of these things. We see pretty clearly and we see Paul as well. He's written letters of guidance. We have two letters here specifically 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy.
But there are probably other letters that he wrote that we just don't have, you know, that were kept over time. So really, we see that the governing idea here is Paul really pushing Timothy to guide others, to see and savor Jesus as their Lord and savior, and to focus on and trusting what he's taught and trusting the gospel and what Jesus ultimately has taught to faithful people.
So being mindful, being thoughtful in this process of selection of people using time and then passing on that wisdom.

Austin
And, you know, as I think about this, and I think about us in the West, it's easy for me to look at the multitude of people that are in front of me that I can spend my time with. Again, kids, friends, neighbors, spouse. I think about people that have lived with us. People that are younger in the faith.
Like there are so many Christians in the West that I could spend time with. But I think again, just as Paul was intentional with Timothy, we need to pray about who is God setting before us to disciple and invest in. And I think, you know, obviously the primary proximity for me is my kids and God has called me into that relationship and it will be one of the longest relationships of my life here on Earth is with my children.
So that's an easy one. But even with my kids, how do I engage each of them differently? Because they're not all the same. They're very different and I love them for being different, but they are different. And so prayerfully, thank God. How have you called me to disciple my oldest, my youngest, my middle, and how he called me to lead them into leading their friends, Even at a young age of being models of who Christ is to their friends, and then how is God calling us to then go outside of our families, outside of disciple, in our kids.
I think we just need to be prayerful and intentional about it. And I think, again, this gets lost in the West because of the opportunities that we have. I remember talking to missionaries that worked in persecuted areas of the church and they were saying before you could as a national joint staff with the organization, you had to show multiple levels of multiplication.
So, you disciple somebody who disciple somebody else, you disciple somebody else to show that like you are faithful to the Lord because the stakes were really high in that place. Because if you slipped up and you let a wolf in, like you could do some real damage to the church and to the organization. And so I think, again, this is the kind that that is the kind of persecution that's happening in the early church.
And so I think we need to look at these verses and say, okay, there is a significant amount of intentionality that Paul is placing on these relationships, that I need to look inward and say him I taking that same level of intentionality right with the people around me. And I think oftentimes I'm not right. Oftentimes I'm not taking the time to pray and consider who the Lord has in my life.
Oftentimes, I'm not taking the additional time to pray for my kids to this level of like, what does God long for me to impart upon them? How does God want me to lead them individually? I can so, so quickly come back to you. Well, I just want to spend some time in quiet because I'm overwhelmed. I want to spend some time reading my books rather than engaging my kids because I'm tired, because I fill in the blank, whatever the excuse is, I find excuses far easier than I find intentional discipleship.

Spencer
That pace again, of the culture, you know, if you have children, you know that as they build friendships, there's all kinds of different opportunities for them. There's sports every season, there's multiple sports every season. You know, we're walking through Andrew playing basketball, and one of the kiddos that he's playing with had multiple sports and another, you know, theater activity trying to do all at the same time and just, you know, kind of mind boggling. As we think about what we can be drawn into and if we're doing all of those things, it's hard to have any time just to relate to the Lord, you know, and solitude and silence to begin with, let alone then be praying for our kids, be praying for those around us so that we can discern what are you up to.
Now there are certain seasons of life, obviously, that we've got more space and time. or some of these activities. But I think it's incumbent on us to have that space to say, Lord, what are you up to here? Am I going to, you know, look back after, you know, ten years of doing these activities and going at this pace and think, did I miss a real opportunities to say no over here, spend some time and really hope to impart some of those core values, just spending time with the kids, you know, in some in some critical ways, because I think as we look at things, so oftentimes it's sports or an activity or things that, you know, there are good things to do. But they fall short of oftentimes really drawing us closer to the Lord.
I think of my own story and, you know, in high school, athletics and academics were the idols. You know, it's just, hey, I'm going to spend a couple of hours a day every day doing homework, being in the best classes I can, getting the best grades that I can, playing sports all year round, all of these things where they good things.
Was there space, though, to participate in corporate worship? Was there space to build and cultivate a relationship with the Lord? Those things really atrophied, you know, in that season in high school until the very end of high school for me. So I look back on that and think, you know, how can I, as a dad, engage with my kids maybe in a way that, yeah, they still they still get to learn how to grow and use their bodies and sports and different things at the same time, really try to provide some space for that discipleship in the spiritual areas that, you know, is, is something that's kind of countercultural bread.

Austin
You know what I think too, especially as we think about where we've been in the podcast, we talked about God owning our time. God owning money. God owns relationships. God owns it all. And as I think about it holistically, you know, we've come back to this idea that if I am not proactive with my money, my money will start to control me.
If I'm not proactive with my time. My time will start dwindling away to where I don't feel like I have to. I guess the same with relationships. If I don't. I'm not proactive and intentional with those relationships. There's what starts as a little drift can become really a large separation and it takes an intentionality. Stewardship takes intentionality.
Stewardship of all of our being takes a level of pursuit that is hard and money, time, relationships, gifts/experiences, it all blends together. And we can't sacrifice one for the other. We can't say, okay, I'm going to go make more money. If I go try to make more money, it's going to take more time. If it takes more time and takes time away from my relationships, takes time away from relationships then I also can't serve.
You know, they're all interconnected. If I spend more time with my kids, then I have less time with my wife. I spend more time with my friends that I have less time with my family, like everything is interconnected. But I think what Paul is calling us to and what Christ is calling us to is this level of intentionality that says, Where are you moving Lord? Let me try to meet you there and I want to follow closely with you. And it again, it just is that what am I pursuing with my life?

Spencer
Well, it comes back to God owns it all. And if he owns it all, then if we don't have space to listen, you know, money, time, relationships, gifts, experiences, all these different things, If we don't lay those before him with intention, like you're talking about, then how can we expect to have direction, you know, of where to go among all of these different options.
And into to really have the Holy Spirit giving us the energy to do that. You know we've talked recently, Austin and I have about a book called The Locust Effect and just this perspective of, you know, what it really required, what's really required to have a thriving, you know, human system, you know, in any area. And I think oftentimes if we look at the world and we see some of the difficulties and the challenges and those are coming back before us, then our hearts can be sensitized to that and our energy can be engaged in different ways.
If we don't have that coming back to us, then oftentimes there can be a dullness, you know, in our lives, in our relationships, because we don't really have that sense of what's at stake. You know, instead we go a path where we kind of have to do it on our own. And that's not something that rationally we would ever claim.
But the pull of the world takes us along that path. And I think we see that in relationships, right, often times in our own lives.

Austin
And I think I'm really thankful for us doing this podcast because it has like in some ways has been I feel like I've been hit again with where is the Lord moving? And I've been struck personally of like, Oh, am I spending my time wisely, my spending my putting that time into relationships? And I think what's really been enlightening for me over the last couple of months that we've done this is that as I've reflected on my life up until this point, I can see, oh yeah, when I was in high school, my time seemed very limited and now I look back and it was not limited at all.
I look in college and it was like, yeah, I was more limited than high school, but still an abundance of time and an abundance. But as I allowed myself to make the excuses, then it gave me more leeway to make excuses further. But then it took moments of something or someone helping me out of that stupor of realizing that, Oh, I'm, I'm not using my time or my energy or my relationships in a God honoring way.
And so I've been thankful for these moments to be able to reflect and be like, Oh, what is God calling us to? And so as we share these things, know that this has been a significant journey for Spencer and I and that it doesn't just happen overnight. Just like learning that my time is limited. Didn't happen overnight.
I chose over the course of 15, 18 years how to spend my time. And now it's relearning how spend my time. And it's a journey and a process with Jesus that prayerfully continues for the next 70 years—maybe not 70.

Spencer
You don't want to live past 100.

Austin
I don't think so. But as long as the Lord keeps me here, I pray that it is a journey to knowing Jesus more and knowing his heart more. And I think that's where we want to be leading us into in these thinking about who is the next steward and thinking about how are we posturing ourselves with them.
It's, you know, I want to be thinking about the long term, both with them and with myself and giving myself grace to realize God is not done with me. And he is the faithful one.

Spencer
Well, I hope that you've enjoyed today, been able to glean some things. As always, if you have comments, leave those with us, reach out to us. Share this with a friend and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.